Objectives
News 
Oana Ciobanu: "In the next decade we will have a much larger population of elderly migrants"
Alexandra Mănăilă - Reporter
3 April 2014
Oana Ciobanu is a researcher at the University of Applied Sciences in Western Switzerland and the University of Geneva, being particularly concerned with the issue of elderly migrants. She returned to Romania on the occasion of the International Conference "Rethinking EU Immigration: Legal Developments, Management and Practices" held in Bucharest on 13–14 March 2014, where she made a presentation about elderly Romanian immigrants in Switzerland. Oana Ciobanu brought forward to the conference participants a subject explored by few researchers in migration studies: the zero generation or the parents of young migrants. Between two sessions, Mrs Ciobanu kindly answered some questions for us.
Rep: How did you find the event organised by the Romanian Association for Health Promotion, in partnership with SOROS Foundation Romania?
Oana Ciobanu (O.C.): I found the conference interesting, since it managed to bring together researchers working in very different subjects. They were only partly in line with my research, but I am also interested in Romanians’ mobility within the European Union (EU) in general, and there were some presentations on this issue.
Rep: What is the current status of senior immigrants in the EU?
O.C.: The current status of elderly immigrants is very heterogeneous because there are very different groups; some of them went and grew old abroad, therefore they have a history in that country where they paid social security taxes and are entitled to retirement benefits and rights. On the other hand, there are others who have just arrived, the so-called Zero Generation, namely newly retired elderly persons who chose to migrate in a country of destination so as to be closer to their children. These persons have just arrived, they don’t speak the language, they don’t know their rights and are highly dependent on their children. They don’t have any social relationships and no friends abroad either. They mainly immigrate to take care of their grandchildren and they often experience isolation and solitude. They often think of returning to their home countries. This category also includes persons who have just arrived in the UK or Portugal from the former colonies outside Europe, who may be either integrated persons, with EU citizenship, or persons who keep their non-European country of origin citizenship, which has a major impact on their possibility to stay. Another difference between elderly migrants is that some of them worked, others didn’t. They have histories in the illegal labour market so they didn’t contribute to any social security fund to get a pension, so they have to continue working until old age, which makes them vulnerable.
Rep: Is this elderly migrants’ situation common all over the EU?
O.C.: It occurs in countries like Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, UK, the latter being one of the first countries where research on this matter was conducted, considering migration from India and Pakistan following the decolonisation process. Another country facing migration from former colonies is Portugal. However in Portugal the population of elderly migrants is relatively small and it does not get the due attention. For instance, in Portugal elderly migrants represent 3% of the overall migrant population. However it should be understood that this is a growing population. For example, the number of Romanian immigrants in Spain who are over 60 years old is 16,000, while those aged between 50 and 59 are four times as much, namely over 60,000. Hence in the next decade we will get a much larger population of elderly migrants.
Rep: Why does Spain face such an extensive Zero Generation?
O.C.: Spain is one of the main destination countries for Romanian migrants. There are 3 categories of elderly persons originating from Romania now living in Spain: Romanians who arrived in Spain years ago and grew old there, Romanians who lost their jobs in Romania and chose to emigrate at an older age, for instance, people aged 50 and more, and the Zero Generation, who retired in Romania and, having their children living in Spain, they go to this country for shorter or longer periods of time. Not speaking Spanish often makes them vulnerable. These people rely on the Romanian community and their church acquaintances.
Rep: What is the status of Romanian migrants in Switzerland and how many of them are elderly?
O.C.: According to statistics for 2011 there are 7.187 Romanians living in Switzerland. Most of them live in the cantons of Zurich, Geneva and Vaud. Elderly immigrants are a small number. Many of them arrived in Switzerland a long time ago, in the 1970–1980s, and gradually obtained Swiss citizenship, being thus no longer included in the statistics.
Rep: How would you portray the immigrant who is perfectly integrated into the Swiss society?
O.C.: Some of the persons I interviewed during my research work spoke French long before their arrival in Switzerland; they had a university degree and once they arrived in Switzerland they got a job according to their academic degree: architects, engineers, IT specialists, doctors and they have been living in Switzerland for more than 30 years. Therefore there are no visible differences between them and Swiss natives. They also have children and grandchildren living in Switzerland, while they travel to Romania once per year, on holidays. They used to talk to me like this: „we do things like this in Switzerland, how do you do them in Romania?…” . This is a normal approach for people who have been living in Switzerland for more than 30 years after they left Romania without knowing whether they would ever come back. There’s a big difference between a Romanian who left the country in the 1990s saying „I’ll just make some money and I’ll come back or I can come back to Romania anytime” and a Romanian who left the homeland in the 1970–1980s and who believed at that time they would never be able to come back.
Rep: Have the Romanians who emigrated during the communist regime integrated better?
O.C.: They had no other way out. Yes, they managed to integrate better… but the context of their arrival in a foreign country in general and in Switzerland in particular was very different. Nowadays a Romanian who arrives in Switzerland, although with higher education, needs a work permit. They have a more difficult status than a Romanian who arrived there in the 1970s or 1980s and was immediately granted a license to work.
Rep: There are however some people who don’t manage to integrate...
O.C.: There will definitely be such persons in Switzerland, too. However what I have not met in Geneva and Zurich where I conducted my research was this Zero Generation. I met persons who come to take care of their grandchildren in France, near the Swiss border. These persons do not have any expectations to integrate; they just come to be close to their families, to take care of their grandchildren and they will go back to Romania in 5 years, when children go to school.
You can read about research and how it was affected following the Swiss referendum in the second part of this interview with Mrs Oana Ciobanu, researcher at the University of Applied Sciences in Western Switzerland and the University of Geneva, to be published soon.
Rep: How did you find the event organised by the Romanian Association for Health Promotion, in partnership with SOROS Foundation Romania?
Oana Ciobanu (O.C.): I found the conference interesting, since it managed to bring together researchers working in very different subjects. They were only partly in line with my research, but I am also interested in Romanians’ mobility within the European Union (EU) in general, and there were some presentations on this issue.
Rep: What is the current status of senior immigrants in the EU?
O.C.: The current status of elderly immigrants is very heterogeneous because there are very different groups; some of them went and grew old abroad, therefore they have a history in that country where they paid social security taxes and are entitled to retirement benefits and rights. On the other hand, there are others who have just arrived, the so-called Zero Generation, namely newly retired elderly persons who chose to migrate in a country of destination so as to be closer to their children. These persons have just arrived, they don’t speak the language, they don’t know their rights and are highly dependent on their children. They don’t have any social relationships and no friends abroad either. They mainly immigrate to take care of their grandchildren and they often experience isolation and solitude. They often think of returning to their home countries. This category also includes persons who have just arrived in the UK or Portugal from the former colonies outside Europe, who may be either integrated persons, with EU citizenship, or persons who keep their non-European country of origin citizenship, which has a major impact on their possibility to stay. Another difference between elderly migrants is that some of them worked, others didn’t. They have histories in the illegal labour market so they didn’t contribute to any social security fund to get a pension, so they have to continue working until old age, which makes them vulnerable.
Rep: Is this elderly migrants’ situation common all over the EU?
O.C.: It occurs in countries like Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, UK, the latter being one of the first countries where research on this matter was conducted, considering migration from India and Pakistan following the decolonisation process. Another country facing migration from former colonies is Portugal. However in Portugal the population of elderly migrants is relatively small and it does not get the due attention. For instance, in Portugal elderly migrants represent 3% of the overall migrant population. However it should be understood that this is a growing population. For example, the number of Romanian immigrants in Spain who are over 60 years old is 16,000, while those aged between 50 and 59 are four times as much, namely over 60,000. Hence in the next decade we will get a much larger population of elderly migrants.
Rep: Why does Spain face such an extensive Zero Generation?
O.C.: Spain is one of the main destination countries for Romanian migrants. There are 3 categories of elderly persons originating from Romania now living in Spain: Romanians who arrived in Spain years ago and grew old there, Romanians who lost their jobs in Romania and chose to emigrate at an older age, for instance, people aged 50 and more, and the Zero Generation, who retired in Romania and, having their children living in Spain, they go to this country for shorter or longer periods of time. Not speaking Spanish often makes them vulnerable. These people rely on the Romanian community and their church acquaintances.
Rep: What is the status of Romanian migrants in Switzerland and how many of them are elderly?
O.C.: According to statistics for 2011 there are 7.187 Romanians living in Switzerland. Most of them live in the cantons of Zurich, Geneva and Vaud. Elderly immigrants are a small number. Many of them arrived in Switzerland a long time ago, in the 1970–1980s, and gradually obtained Swiss citizenship, being thus no longer included in the statistics.
Rep: How would you portray the immigrant who is perfectly integrated into the Swiss society?
O.C.: Some of the persons I interviewed during my research work spoke French long before their arrival in Switzerland; they had a university degree and once they arrived in Switzerland they got a job according to their academic degree: architects, engineers, IT specialists, doctors and they have been living in Switzerland for more than 30 years. Therefore there are no visible differences between them and Swiss natives. They also have children and grandchildren living in Switzerland, while they travel to Romania once per year, on holidays. They used to talk to me like this: „we do things like this in Switzerland, how do you do them in Romania?…” . This is a normal approach for people who have been living in Switzerland for more than 30 years after they left Romania without knowing whether they would ever come back. There’s a big difference between a Romanian who left the country in the 1990s saying „I’ll just make some money and I’ll come back or I can come back to Romania anytime” and a Romanian who left the homeland in the 1970–1980s and who believed at that time they would never be able to come back.
Rep: Have the Romanians who emigrated during the communist regime integrated better?
O.C.: They had no other way out. Yes, they managed to integrate better… but the context of their arrival in a foreign country in general and in Switzerland in particular was very different. Nowadays a Romanian who arrives in Switzerland, although with higher education, needs a work permit. They have a more difficult status than a Romanian who arrived there in the 1970s or 1980s and was immediately granted a license to work.
Rep: There are however some people who don’t manage to integrate...
O.C.: There will definitely be such persons in Switzerland, too. However what I have not met in Geneva and Zurich where I conducted my research was this Zero Generation. I met persons who come to take care of their grandchildren in France, near the Swiss border. These persons do not have any expectations to integrate; they just come to be close to their families, to take care of their grandchildren and they will go back to Romania in 5 years, when children go to school.
You can read about research and how it was affected following the Swiss referendum in the second part of this interview with Mrs Oana Ciobanu, researcher at the University of Applied Sciences in Western Switzerland and the University of Geneva, to be published soon.
Back